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TOPIC: Tournament Fun!

Tournament Fun! 2 years 4 months ago #32420

  • Paul Gallegos
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So this past weekend was the season-opening tournament here in AZ (Desert Elite Inaugural Cup).

I didn't have that many games to work due to my son's team playing in the tournament, but I did work a very tame u14 girls match as AR2, a contentious U13 boys match as CR, and two championship matches as AR1 and CR.

The u13 boys match was interesting to me because I gave out 5 YCs, three to one team for PI. The third one (to White #5) was actually the fun one because he committed a "cheapie" to get it - a PIDM foul (high kick). I probably could have held off on that one and waiting until he committed a DFK foul, but since his team didn't seem to get the message about the persistent fouling after two previous players' YCs, I gave him his YC.

About 5 minutes later, a player from the opposing team fouls #5 about 15 yards out from the PA left side with a tackle from behind. #5 gets up and complains about him getting a card. I told him, "I just gave him his yellow, and you really shouldn't be talking to me about cards since you've already got one." (cue the parental laughter on the sidelines)

The Championship game I had to center was a u15 girls "Gold" division (top flight) - 4 YC's, 3 to one team, but one of those was a 2CT. The match was pretty competitive and even, until the second half.

White #7 had come in late and from behind in the first half and been cautioned with the score tied 1-1, and in the second half with the teams still tied and about 15 minutes left to play, #7 comes in from the front with a hard slide but keeps her legs tucked. Her slide gets the ball and wipes the opposing Teal player out. Easy second YC / RC. This is a girls game, so my first move is to get the offender away from the opposition, show her the cards (YC, then RC), send her off, and then call the coach over - I don't even ask the player if she needs assistance, as I can hear her sobbing.

Teal Coach comes running over and starts in on me like the video we all have seen here about the "Ref losing control of the match". I cut her off before she got too far into the "You're not taking control of the match and this is what happens" diatribe - "Coach, you need to attend to your player, not me. The offender was already sent off." She started up again, and I just cut her off again with "Take care of your player."

Why is this interesting? The Teal team was actually more physical and fouled more than White, but White ended up with the three YC's. (Teal did get one as well for the same type of late-and-from-behind tackle.) And while the total number of fouls was not anything out of the ordinary either, the Teal coach wanted to try to make a meal out of the situation and I thought I defused it pretty quickly.

Of course, the next ticky-tack foul that was committed by Teal, I called, then pointedly looked over to the bench to make sure Coach understood this is what it looks like when you get what you ask for. Message received, no more complaints. ;) Teal went on to score three more in the half and win running away.



Some of the refs here were at the tourney. Care to share your experiences from some of the games?
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Tournament Fun! 2 years 4 months ago #32424

  • Crwys Harris
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Paul Gallegos wrote:
The u13 boys match was interesting to me because I gave out 5 YCs, three to one team for PI. The third one (to White #5) was actually the fun one because he committed a "cheapie" to get it - a PIDM foul (high kick). I probably could have held off on that one and waiting until he committed a DFK foul, but since his team didn't seem to get the message about the persistent fouling after two previous players' YCs, I gave him his YC.

Did you talk to the captain or coach about the PI after the 2nd yellow card? They are U13 and are probably in need of some guidance.
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Tournament Fun! 2 years 4 months ago #32427

  • Paul Gallegos
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No, this was a Gold division game and the two clubs (not necessarily the teams) have a history between them. I imagine games like this have something to do with that.

The only thing I did was that when the player who got the second yellow turned upfield, I said loudly "if you're going to keep fouling, we're going to see more cards." (To their credit, that third YC didn't come until way late in the second half...)
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Tournament Fun! 2 years 4 months ago #32439

Paul Gallegos wrote:
No, this was a Gold division game and the two clubs (not necessarily the teams) have a history between them. I imagine games like this have something to do with that.

The only thing I did was that when the player who got the second yellow turned upfield, I said loudly "if you're going to keep fouling, we're going to see more cards." (To their credit, that third YC didn't come until way late in the second half...)

Do not always play into the clubs have a history, I learned that lesson the hardway. I was doing a game where the clubs were said to have a history. I ended up giving a few cautions that did not need to be given.
The match was pretty calm no issues, but with that history idea in mind I had a faster PI level.

Know that you could have issues, but let them to start to show before you you adjust your game.
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Tournament Fun! 2 years 4 months ago #32446

My question is are you talking to the players? Usually a quick 'no more' should signal your intent with persistent infringements. If you aren't communicating with the players you will start using the cards more than you need because the players think they can get away with the fouls.



"Of course, the next ticky-tack foul that was committed by Teal, I called" I don't think that's the message you need to send and it makes you look very petty in that you had a score to settle.
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Tournament Fun! 2 years 4 months ago #32489

  • Paul Gallegos
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mike lim wrote:
My question is are you talking to the players? Usually a quick 'no more' should signal your intent with persistent infringements. If you aren't communicating with the players you will start using the cards more than you need because the players think they can get away with the fouls.



"Of course, the next ticky-tack foul that was committed by Teal, I called" I don't think that's the message you need to send and it makes you look very petty in that you had a score to settle.

I always warn the players after their second foul that their next one is a caution. In hindsight, I will be taking Crwys's advice and have a word with the coach (u13 captains don't really "control" the team like older levels) after a second PI infraction.
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Tournament Fun! 2 years 4 months ago #32495

  • Paul Gallegos
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Justin McBride wrote:
Do not always play into the clubs have a history, I learned that lesson the hardway. I was doing a game where the clubs were said to have a history. I ended up giving a few cautions that did not need to be given.
The match was pretty calm no issues, but with that history idea in mind I had a faster PI level.

I don't quite understand that one - how do you have a "faster PI level"? Did you warn the players after the second/third infraction before issuing a caution? What's your threshold for PI?
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Tournament Fun! 2 years 4 months ago #32497

Often when a referee has knowledge of history between the two sides, the referee is quick to give a caution or calls a game so tight at the beginning that the teams build up frustration. "Faster PI level" means cautioning on the 2nd foul and maybe for something relatively minor-a push or hold etc. It gets you a cycle where both teams expect cautions for relatively minor fouls.

My personal tendency is to call the game as needed. If they want to play firm but fair, then I'll let them have the game they want to play.

When you pre judge the game or the teams, you often end up with more problems than you need.
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Tournament Fun! 2 years 4 months ago #32505

Paul Gallegos wrote:
Justin McBride wrote:
Do not always play into the clubs have a history, I learned that lesson the hardway. I was doing a game where the clubs were said to have a history. I ended up giving a few cautions that did not need to be given.
The match was pretty calm no issues, but with that history idea in mind I had a faster PI level.

I don't quite understand that one - how do you have a "faster PI level"? Did you warn the players after the second/third infraction before issuing a caution? What's your threshold for PI?

My range is between 2-4 fouls. Factors I consider
Skill level
Type of foul
Game temperature
Players attitude

So let's apply this

Let's say I have a B13 Rec game, and it's a calm match, and it's not the same foul each time, player is not arguing

I would tend to lean towards 3-4 fouls and yes I will typically warn before hand.

Now let's take a B13 comp match, it's a heated match and there are a lot of pushing fouls, then I call a push on number 4, and he wants to argue, I am in the range of 2-3 fouls, he would probably be in the book on the second foul.
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