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    22 Messages ▪ Page 1 of 2
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  • 8 months 3 weeks ago
    #8500
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emo Goal after ball drop

Another question from the entry level site quiz:


Question 88 of 100

At a dropped ball, the ball first touched the ground and then a player kicked it directly into the opponent’s goal. The referee should award:

Goal kick
Throw-in
Corner kick
Dropped ball
Goal

I chose *goal*, site says that it's incorrect, and should be *goal kick*

According to the ATR table 8.6, (bottom right corner), a goal should be possible after the ball hits the ground.
Am I missing something here?
Private Message 2014-09-02 16:38:33
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  • 8 months 3 weeks ago
    #8501
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  • Mark Quinton
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Goal after ball drop

The ATR is out of date, I would suggest rereading over the recent law changes. Since last year, you can no longer score directly off a drop ball. if the offense knocks it directly in, then the correct restart is a goal kick.
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Private Message 2014-09-02 16:38:33
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  • 8 months 3 weeks ago
    #8502
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  • Bill Stintsman
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Goal after ball drop

A goal can't be scored directly from the first touch of a dropped ball. According to Law 8 - if a dropped ball is kicked directly into the opponent's goal (after it has first touched the ground) a goal kick is awarded. If a dropped ball is kicked directly into the team's own goal (after it has first touched the ground) a corner kick is awarded to the opposing team.

Consider it like an Indirect Free Kick. It is in play once it touches the ground but it has to have a second touch in order for a goal to be scored.
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Private Message 2014-09-02 16:38:33
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  • 8 months 3 weeks ago
    #8504
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  • Rafal Wlazlo
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    • "Laws of the Game are hard; they're harder if you're stupid."

Goal after ball drop

Yes, that part of ATR is outdated. The answer to that question was updated by me when the applicable amendment was passed by IFAB.
Fmr. National Referee
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Private Message 2014-09-02 16:38:33
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  • 8 months 3 weeks ago
    #8505
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  • Larry Keil
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Goal after ball drop

What do you do if the attacker takes a touch or two then kicks it into goal? The law simply states a goal can not be scored directly, and since a second touch is allowed on a drop ball it would no longer be direct.
Private Message 2014-09-02 16:38:33
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  • 8 months 3 weeks ago
    #8506
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  • Rafal Wlazlo
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    • "Laws of the Game are hard; they're harder if you're stupid."

Goal after ball drop

Larry Keil wrote:
What do you do if the attacker takes a touch or two then kicks it into goal? The law simply states a goal can not be scored directly, and since a second touch is allowed on a drop ball it would no longer be direct.

As if he "played" the ball instead of just kicking it?

Goal Kick.

USSF explained previously;
The purpose and effect of this revision was to not allow a goal to be counted if, after the ball is in play after being dropped by the referee, a player kicks or otherwise plays the ball directly into a goal.
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Private Message 2014-09-02 16:38:33
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  • 8 months 3 weeks ago
    #8521
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  • Steve Greene
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Goal after ball drop

Larry Keil wrote:
What do you do if the attacker takes a touch or two then kicks it into goal? The law simply states a goal can not be scored directly, and since a second touch is allowed on a drop ball it would no longer be direct.

2 different things - 1 touch = goal kick. 2 or more touches = goal
Private Message 2014-09-02 16:38:33
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  • 8 months 3 weeks ago
    #8526
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  • Emilio Mundula
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Goal after ball drop

Larry Keil wrote:
What do you do if the attacker takes a touch or two then kicks it into goal? The law simply states a goal can not be scored directly, and since a second touch is allowed on a drop ball it would no longer be direct.

Direct kick off the dropped ball and scores: goal kick.

More than one touch with control (but then, what the heck is the other team doing? :lol: ), that's a valid goal.
**Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a ride!" (Hunter S. Thompson)***
Private Message 2014-09-02 16:38:33
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  • 8 months 3 weeks ago
    #8528
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  • Rafal Wlazlo
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Goal after ball drop

Steve and Emilio, school is in session :evil:

The amendment means that another player (other than one kicking or playing that ball) MUST touch the ball in order for the goal to be valid.

That is why USSF added "or otherwise plays the ball" into their explanation.

Besides, you can read the IFAB's "reason" addressing the "kicking/playing" the ball multiple times below;
Reason
Law 8 – Start and Restart of play (dropped ball) was subject to a Law change at the 2012 AGM.
The proposed new text will clarify the interpretation of the word “direct” in the context of any player playing the ball more than once and thereafter scoring a goal without the ball being played by any other player.

wkfjb.png


So, if a dropped ball restart is taking place and a player dribbles that ball and kicks it into opponents net without an intervening touch, it is GOAL KICK.
Fmr. National Referee
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Private Message 2014-09-02 16:38:33
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  • 8 months 3 weeks ago
    #8529
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  • Emilio Mundula
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Goal after ball drop

Rafal Wlazlo wrote:
Steve and Emilio, school is in session :evil:

The amendment means that another player (other than one kicking or playing that ball) MUST touch the ball in order for the goal to be valid.

That is why USSF added "or otherwise plays the ball" into their explanation.

Besides, you can read the IFAB's "reason" addressing the "kicking/playing" the ball multiple times below;
Reason
Law 8 – Start and Restart of play (dropped ball) was subject to a Law change at the 2012 AGM.
The proposed new text will clarify the interpretation of the word “direct” in the context of any player playing the ball more than once and thereafter scoring a goal without the ball being played by any other player.

wkfjb.png


So, if a dropped ball restart is taking place and a player dribbles that ball and kicks it into opponents net without an intervening touch, it is GOAL KICK.

I stand corrected. I completely forgot that IFAB addressing! Thanks, Rafal.
**Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a ride!" (Hunter S. Thompson)***
Private Message 2014-09-02 16:38:33
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  • 8 months 3 weeks ago
    #8533
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  • Steve Greene
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Goal after ball drop

Rafal Wlazlo wrote:
Steve and Emilio, school is in session :evil:

The amendment means that another player (other than one kicking or playing that ball) MUST touch the ball in order for the goal to be valid.

That is why USSF added "or otherwise plays the ball" into their explanation.

Besides, you can read the IFAB's "reason" addressing the "kicking/playing" the ball multiple times below;
Reason
Law 8 – Start and Restart of play (dropped ball) was subject to a Law change at the 2012 AGM.
The proposed new text will clarify the interpretation of the word “direct” in the context of any player playing the ball more than once and thereafter scoring a goal without the ball being played by any other player.

wkfjb.png


So, if a dropped ball restart is taking place and a player dribbles that ball and kicks it into opponents net without an intervening touch, it is GOAL KICK.

The training I received from USSF says what I said, I was looking for an update and can't find it - NOT saying it has not been updated but that I can not find it. This is what I have from USSF:


law8.JPG


Which says same player touching the ball twice.
Private Message 2014-09-02 16:38:33
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  • 8 months 3 weeks ago
    #8536
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  • Rafal Wlazlo
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Goal after ball drop

That is interesting…let me look into this more. Maybe it'll turn into a school session for me now.

Right now it is IFAB vs USSF
Fmr. National Referee
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Private Message 2014-09-02 16:38:33
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  • 8 months 3 weeks ago
    #8537
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  • Rafal Wlazlo
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Goal after ball drop

Steve is right. It only applies to the first touch. huh…

Maybe I should take a day off lol.

First my awful game this past weekend, now I'm getting the basics wrong.

Thanks Steve, I stand corrected (and schooled).
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Private Message 2014-09-02 16:38:33
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  • 8 months 3 weeks ago
    #8546
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  • Steve Greene
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Goal after ball drop

Thank you as well - always glad to learn something new or be sure myself so I did have to look.
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Private Message 2014-09-02 16:38:33
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  • 8 months 3 weeks ago
    #8552
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  • Alfred Bester
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Goal after ball drop

Remember that the amendment posted by Rafal was rejected by IFAB.
Private Message 2014-09-02 16:38:33
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  • 8 months 3 weeks ago
    #8613
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Goal after ball drop

Thanks to everyone for the clarification.
Where can I find these updates to the rules?
(eg: the memorandum shown above?)
Private Message 2014-09-02 16:38:33
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  • 8 months 3 weeks ago
    #8618
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  • Steve Greene
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Goal after ball drop

the image I posted is from the course slide show (referee training) - the FIFA adoption of the change is here

ussoccer.app.box.com/s/8d484a9971e518316...5094493/4193063904/1

but the clarifications are only in the slides as the ATR hasn't been updated and possibly will not be, as I understand it USSF is looking at what/how to update or address the ATR in its future form, whatever that form ends up being.
Private Message 2014-09-02 16:38:33
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  • 8 months 2 weeks ago
    #8630
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  • Emilio Mundula
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Goal after ball drop

Well, looks like I was off too...the second time. Bad Rafal for making me think I was wrong... (Kidding, of course, my fault for not double checking right away).

No idea why and how, I was missing that memorandum from my files.

Thanks Steve for the clarification.
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Private Message 2014-09-02 16:38:33
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  • 8 months 2 weeks ago
    #8637
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  • Brian Beiler
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Goal after ball drop

All of this confusion because there are too many players (and coaches) who do not subscribe to the unwritten rules regarding "Fair Play".
Private Message 2014-09-02 16:38:33
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  • 8 months 2 weeks ago
    #8650
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  • Rafal Wlazlo
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Goal after ball drop

Well, Steve saved the day!

Emilio, I would give myself a caution for not knowing better, but with my recent form who knows, it might be my third lol.
Fmr. National Referee
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Private Message 2014-09-02 16:38:33
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